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Kota Kinabalu: Two former Permanent Secretaries told the Sessions Court, Thursday, that they had no knowledge of, nor had they ever heard of, the existence of a so-called “Centralised Collection System” under which contractors allegedly paid Water Department officers upon securing contracts.

Datuk Michael Emban, 69, a retired civil servant who was Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Infrastructure Development from 2016 to 2018, and Datuk Pengiran Hassanel PG Mohd Tahir, 68, who was Permanent Secretary of the Sabah Ministry of Finance from 2010 to 2018 and earlier served at the Ministry of Infrastructure Development between 2003 and 2010, were questioned by defence counsel Datuk Ansari Abdullah for first accused Ag Mohd Tahir Ag Mohd Talib.

They were respectively asked whether they had ever heard of or knew about a scheme known as the “Centralised Collection System”, in which contractors allegedly made payments to officers of the Sabah State Water Department (JANS) after being awarded contracts.

Michael was questioned in relation to his service at the Ministry of Infrastructure Development, while Hassanel was asked about the period between 2006 and 2016.

Michael replied: “No,” while Hassanel said: “No, I have never heard of the existence of such a Centralised Collection System.”

Earlier, during examination-in-chief, Michael, the 13th defence witness, said he knew only Ag Mohd Tahir during his tenure at the Ministry of Infrastructure Development from 2016 to 2018, and recalled another officer, Teo Chee Kong, who had served as Deputy Director and Division Engineer in Kota Kinabalu.

In response to questions from Ansari, Michael said his dealings with Ag Mohd Tahir were limited to official matters, as the latter was Director of JANS and the controlling officer.

“Coordination meetings and meetings called by the minister involving heads of department would be attended by Ag Mohd Tahir as head of department. Only heads of department attended such meetings, so I interacted only with him,” he said.

Asked whether he had ever heard that the minister or senior officers at the ministry had been given money by Teo Chee Kong, Michael replied: “No.”

He also denied ever receiving any monetary inducement from Teo Chee Kong or Lim Lam Beng.

When asked about the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) operation at JANS headquarters in October 2016, Michael said he only learned of it through newspaper reports. 

He added that no MACC officer had recorded his statement in relation to the existence of corrupt practices at JANS during his tenure as Permanent Secretary.

During cross-examination by Deputy Public Prosecutor (DPP) Mahadi Abdul Jumaat, Michael agreed that he had no knowledge of events, plans or decisions at JANS between 2006 and 2016, and that he was not involved in its internal management during that period. 

He also agreed that decisions made by the Director or Deputy Director of JANS between 2006 and 2016 were outside his involvement and knowledge.

He denied the suggestion that he was in court because of allegations that he had received bribes under the alleged scheme, and said he was unaware that his name had been linked in media reports as one of those said to have received inducements.

When further cross-examined by DPP Haresh Prakash Somiah, Michael agreed that any dealings Teo Chee Kong may have had with other officers at the Ministry of Infrastructure Development between 2016 and 2018 would have been outside his knowledge. 

He also agreed that any inducements allegedly given to other officers during that period would likewise have been beyond his knowledge.

Ag Mohd Tahir, 63, his wife Fauziah Ag Piut, 59, and former JANS Deputy Director Lim Lam Beng, 71, are currently on trial on multiple money-laundering charges involving RM61.57 million, as well as charges of unlawful possession of luxury goods allegedly committed between Oct 13 and Nov 8, 2016.

Meanwhile, Hassanel, the 14th defence witness, testified that during his service at the Ministry of Infrastructure Development he knew both Ag Mohd Tahir and Lim Lam Beng.

He said he could not recall having been informed of, or hearing any complaints about, abuse of power by Ag Mohd Tahir as Director of JANS between 2006 and 2016. 

He also denied ever receiving any financial inducement from prosecution witness Teo Chee Kong.

On whether MACC had recorded his statement following its October 2016 operations at JANS headquarters and its divisions statewide, Hassanel said that while serving at the Ministry of Finance he might have been interviewed by MACC, possibly on matters related to budget and procedures, but could not remember the details of the questioning.

During cross-examination by DPP Haresh, Hassanel agreed that he had never served at JANS between 2003 and 2018 and was not directly or indirectly involved in its operational management during that period.

He further agreed that, for that reason, he had no knowledge of the alleged “Centralised Collection System”.

Hassanel also agreed that any dealings Teo Chee Kong may have had with other officers at the Ministry of Finance between 2016 and 2018 would have been outside his knowledge, and that any alleged financial inducements given to other officers during the same period would likewise have been beyond his knowledge.

Ansari also represented Fauziah while counsel Baldev Singh represented Lim.

Trial continues.