Q: Why are you not standing in this 16th State Election? A: Even in the last general election I stood only for Parliament. So, I believe my role can be better played by being one of the voices of Sabah at Parliament.
Q: Why restrict your party SAPP to only two seats?
A: As you realise, towards the nomination day there were many parties and many candidates so we don’t want to argue with other parties on who gets how many. We are open minded on this. We won’t argue over who gets how many seats.
It is not an issue for us.
Q: Why is it necessary to join Perikatan Nasional, and not strike it out on your own?
A: You use the word necessary, I think that is not the correct word. Would it be more compatible for us to fulfil what we have been saying in the last many years. So necessity is not the ... I would not use that word. I would say compatible and consistent with what SAPP has been saying for the last 12 years.
Ever since we left the Barisan Nasional , we were uncomfortable with the one party dominance which was Barisan Nasional - Umno so we felt that there should be more emphasis on Sabah rights.
It is all on record. All the things that I have said are all on record. Autonomy, MA63.
Our main reason for becoming a member of Perikatan Nasional is its a new start, its resetting the Malaysian democratic development and for Sabah we have a large no-dominant party whether it is local or from Federal.
Q: Why not contest 73 seats all under SAPP?
A: No, no, no. We have never contested all seats. Even in the last round we contested only seven out of the 60 seats in Gabungan Sabah.
It is looking for the right partners to contest in the areas where they are strong. You dont contest 73 seats for the sake of contesting 73 seats.
If we have other parties, we have a similar political struggle, and they have strong candidates there why should we want to clash with them?
Q: Have you ever thought of the possibility of forming the Sabah State Government with your party alone?
A: In our mission that’s one of the vision statement that is one of the objective to create a healthy society but you can achieve the same objective without going into the election yourself in all areas.
Like I said, like in Sarawak for instance it’s a combination of many parties, in Sabah we only had one ... twice I think, Berjaya for two terms and PBS for two terms, almost single party rule.
It has its own advantages and disadvantages. But ever since the 1990s there has been a mushrooming of many political parties. Some people are uncomfortable that there are so many parties.
But let’s go back a bit, in the 1980s people complain about why is it so difficult to register a party. Easily the democratic right of any citizen to register a party however small or however big they are.
Remember those days? PBS itself getting registered was a main issue. And then you have Usno trying to re-register itself. It is only in the last 10 years or so that as a result of actually of some court cases where individuals apply to the court to force the Registrar of Societies (RoS) to approve political parties as long as they comply with the law.
All the criteria stated in the Registrar of Societies Act, the founders do not have legal or criminal problems, then the RoS must approve. So, you got to the history whereby there was a lot of complains that they don’t allow people to form parties. So now we are in a stage whereby many people have formed many parties.
I cannot complain about this new scenario because at the end of the day it is up to the people who they vote.
Then when we look at the national political scenario, we like what we hear about MA63, Tan Sri Muhyiddin’s leadership is very accepted by alot of people, it’s a fresh start for Malaysia after all the fighting between Anwar - Mahathir, Mahathir - Najib.
So now Tan Sri Muhyiddin was a fresh, very refreshing atmosphere, he has solved the economic problem coming from Covid-19 and all this.
And we are very assured by the MA63 promised and even assigned a minister to comply with MA63, at the same time the Federal Government making a firm stand against the Philippine claim to Sabah and illegal immigrants.
Having said all that, we started with about 10 or so, then we have to start narrowing down to the more likely areas so we come down to just four or five, that was tabled for discussion with other parties , we narrow down to just Likas and Tanjung Papat ... we can live with that, no issue.
That is how it started.
Q: Are you comfortable to talk about the third forces in this election?
A: I like the idea of third force. We were in Gabungan Sabah, Gabungan Sabah is still there by the way. PCS left already even before Anifah.
The third force meaning at that time was Barisan Nasional or Pakatan Harapan. So the third force now is all these other parties.
The third force now you see effective third force is in Sarawak, GPS. It is a national third force but in Sarawak they are the main force. In Sarawak, Gabungan Parti Sarawak is the main force and at the national level they are the effective third force.
In Sabah, you will have now ... actually ... the Warisan Plus which is not very Plus because you have PKR not really with Warisan and on the other side you have the Perikatan Bloc Plus PBS and Barisan Nasional Bloc.
So the third force will be PCS, LDP, Usno and these parties.
I like the idea of the third force honestly, even though I now belong to the Perikatan Nasional. As I said in the beginning, my conclusion, is now no dominant political party in Malaysia and Sabah which is a good thing for democracy.
Q: Why should Gabungan Sabah be aligned with Perikatan Nasional, not on its own?
A: All state-based parties whether it is Gabungan Sabah or Gabungan Parti Sarawak must align itself with the Federal Government. It must be government to government. It must align.
So even though you are third force, you have to be aligned with Federal Government or Federal Opposition. Then you become more effective.
Q: What about the question of relevance for your party with only two seats?
A: Like I said ... I go back to the new scenario. The new normal now in Malaysia and more so in Sabah is no party is dominant.
So whether you have two seats or 20 seats, everybody counts. And our contribution as I have said just now in combat terms is Special Forces rather than the big army. But in terms of input, ideas, policies, I would say we are quite comfortable with our stand, when it comes to know what to say, what to do, what Sabah needs now to solve our problem, how our relationship should be with the Federal Government, with other parties, I think SAPP still very confident of our stand.
Q: Can you tell our readers, why voters in Luyang and Tanjung Papat should vote for your party as part of your Perikatan National’s (candidates)?
A: But they will be voting for PN, I think at this stage of development in Malaysia including Sabah, I repeat, there is no dominant party, the ruling Federal party needs the support of Sabah and Sarawak to run the whole nation therefore when Tan Sri Muhyiddin announce when his cabinet was formed in March this year, he announced a specific minister in charge of MA63, and his performance in the last few years have been very good in term of first, I tell you, my friends in west Malaysia, Chinese friends in west Malaysia who voted DAP, they say now there is a fresh hope among the people in West Malaysia that harmony will return that there will be less of this hostility and racial and religious extremism, Muhyiddin have given that new hope to Malaysia and in Sabah the racial harmony the religious harmony which is in the manifesto also the hope of really achieving MA63.
Q: Is the economy a strong factor in this election?
A: One of the biggest problem facing Sabah now is of course economy, I think at this time in Sabah economy challenges, you know this is before Covid, before Covid, our GDP growth was only 0.5 per cent the lowest in the whole country, you know, and this year expected to be minus 20 per cent, nationally minus -17 per cent, Sabah will be minus 20 or 25 per cent. It’s not just economy problem, it will be also social problem.
Q: Dr Pang of POIC said it will be minus 31 per cent
A: Possible, I said minus 20-25 per cent because don’t want to cause alarm but it’s going to be very bad, at the end this time therefore we know how the government works, we know how in business behave, we know how for instance a bank allocate their resources, we know how government approve or defer certain development projects especially during this time you need very close rapport between state and the federal government, political leaders and civil servants, and that will give confidence to the private sector. This is one of the key reason why we believe is no more Pakatan, is no more Barisan Nasional, it’s a Prihatin plus, let’s give it a chance and give that to Tan Sri Muhyiddin.
So the economy is the biggest challenges and I believe so far what we see the best hope is still on the Perikatan federal and state government, and Perikatan have fresh leaders, fresh but also experienced, ex-ministers, Datuk Hajiji he has kept a very clean image, he performed and look after the people, he is acceptable to all races, so he is ideal for that.
The other problem will be security, will all of this talk about extremism, terrorism and the Philippine claim to Sabah that remains one of our biggest problem.
Q: Then the Ferry also a disappointment?
A: Ya the Ferry is ongoing and rather a poor service and it takes many hours, I think businessman and civil servants would rather fly and if we see what’s happening in Zamboanga it is prospering, their biggest branding problem was security, but the prospects are there so i see not to the extend to the Kalimantan but i see also peace and prosperity in the southern Philippine, so many of peace and prosperity in the southern Philippine the push factor of illegal immigrant from Philippine to Sabah will reduce. We have seen this in Vietnam we have seen this in Hong Kong, in Mexico. With peace and prosperity there will be a reverse flow of illegal immigrants’ even legal migrants going back, there’s a lot of facts on this la.
So I see a solution to the illegal immigrant problem? Yes, whereby due to peace and prosperity in Kalimantan and the southern Philippines in our east we should expect that we will face less and less challenges of all this illegal immigrant coming here and giving us all sort of social problem.
At the same time state government in Sabah must not send a wrong signal to give them the pull factor to come, Im going to give you an island come come come come I’m going to give you PSS, come come come I’m going to look after you, you know, you must cut off that pull factor and don’t send the wrong signal.
Q: You were once a Chief Minister, *there was a BIMP-EAGA business council but over the years I think more than 20 years, 10 years it was under the leadership of the public sector, but trade and commerce has not actually taken off in a substantive way that merits the effort and the resources put in, you can explain why? ( why hadn’t the BIMP-EAGA Business Council been more successful (under your watch)?
A: A very good question, you have put the issue on the table BIMP-EAGA council and BIMP-EAGA economic interaction should have progressed much better than it is now, should have. Two things happened in after 1998, there was Asia financial crisis, so Jakarta had reformasi, Malaysia had this reformasi problem and the more BIMP-EAGA minded president, Ramos, finished his term it was given to Estrada, Estrada was a cowboy kind of president evil looking, so this three main countries, Philippine, Indonesia and Malaysia lost focus at the regional level....
Q: What About Brunei?
A: Brunei is the only member of the BIMP-EAGA that is a country on its own, Malaysia only in Sabah and Sarawak, Indonesia only in Sulawesi and Kalimantan, while Philppine only the South, so Brunei will be very convenient as administrative hub because it has no central government to refer to, but economically Brunei is too small to be a player in BIMP-EAGA, just an administrative hub.
Q: But Sabah business community at one time was so frustrated that they noted this Muara port in Brunei as the alternate port to bypass the Cabotage policy the limitation that is on the physical structure in our ports here, so would there have been a success.
A: The Muara port they dont have to worry, there are two main ports in Sabah and Sarawak, we depend on Sepanggar and Bintulu, Muara we dont have to worry because once you cross borders they are all kind of CIQ, Custom regulations. So this issue, Sepanggar and Bintulu as the two main ports for Sabah and Sarawak.
Q: How do you propose to solve the problem of illegal immigrants?
A: The bright side to this illegal immigrant’s problem, do we have a solution? Yes, yes for two reasons first when we talk about illegal immigrant it come from two neighbouring countries mainly the Philippine and Indonesia, what I see in the next 15 to 20 years will be stability and growth especially in Kalimantan.
Even before the relocation of the Indonesian national capital, from Jakarta to Palangka Raya in Kalimantan, even before that Kalimantan was already prospering, so I have been to Kalimantan many years ago and I can see in Sabah there is a reverse flow of foreign labour from Sabah especially agricultural workers through Kalimantan so you reduce the push factor from Kalimantan to Sabah,
As for the Sabah business, when Kalimantan grow they become a rich and prosperous neighbour so we can trade with this we can prosperous neighbour, and Palangka Raya even though as a start they have 3-5 million people as a new capital eventually the population will go to 80 million people, thats a huge market next door and we as a trading state especially the part of Tawau will benefit from that trade with Kalimantan, thats the East part of Kalimantan.
The other part is Southern Philippines, what we see now is at least asemblance of a strong government through the bangsa Moro autonamous region or we see asemblance of strong government, we see some of the governments are performing well but before Covid, we are supposed to be there are the first flight from Zamboanga to KK on March 31 we have business bank coming and going and my people are a part of that delegation going there on a return flight to Zamboanga.
A: So the other issue whether we are able to round up.
Enforcement is always very costly, it can lead to all sorts of human rights issues, so my first priority will let the socio economic picture as i said, peace and stability in our neighbouring countries there will be reduced of a push factor and we must cut off and eliminate the pull factors of these sending the wrong signals to attract more to come, that will reduce the need for enforcement, i think enforcement is very costly and it’s not perfect but nevertheless is has to be boosted up, ,meaning the capacity to handle and to process illegal immigrants so my view is that it can be done, there is always be my view to stop the illegal immigrant problem in Sabah.
Q: How do you assess the Borneonisation progress?
A: The other issue about what you call Borneonisation, I think as a result of the borneonisation case taken up by Ken Yong (Tg. Papat. - Yong Chie Man)
Because this case was widely debated between the civil service, for a start more Sabahan civil servants in the public service become more daring to voice out that the officers, more officers in Sabah should be localised.
At the same time i think the federal government, federal AG chambers, federal public services department look there is this thing called Borneonisation in the Malaysia agreement. It is widely accepted therefore you can see now more and more head of departments are actually from Sabah, we have to keep pushing this.
Q: Is there a necessity for the Federal Secretary office in Sabah?
A: In a way yes, for coordination as you know the Federal Secretary Office is more of coordination among all the departments it does not serve a power to direct other department as far as I know, because you have the state development office, the various education and health, they are still reporting to their ministries, so i will find the federal secretary office at times are rather practical office to coordinate, so you have overlapping duties you have maybe some events maybe not very big is good to have the federal secretary there who can advise and can also coordinate some of the departments.
Q: So what is the purpose of having the Federal Ministry for the East Malaysia, Sabah and Sarawak that is under Dr Max Ongkili?
A: It’s not that Sabah Sarawak ministry, we used to have a federal minister from Sabah and Sarawak, it’s not that, I think Dr Max term a reference therefore we get well *. Dr Max term of reference is ‘compliance with MA63’ it is not a separate ministry for Sabah Sarawak.
Q: He promised a six months duration since the formation of the Perikatan Nasional government but it seems that in six months?
A: I’m not sure about the six months or nine months because this is not a new issue, Datuk Jeffrey have done a lot of research and this, the Borneonisation case I went through all the papers, went through all the cases there’s and interim of the revenue and oil and gas actually its all a matter of implementation, a little bit of complication is that the 40 per cent net revenue, which Datuk Seri Anifah took up when he was the Federal Minister, the time when Datuk Seri Anifah was a federal minister he took up the 40 per cent net revenue, I’m not aware of any other Sabahan federal minister helping him, only Anifah and he was wise he brought in Jeffrey, he also brought in me, I said Datuk Sri, I’m opposition why you bring me in, because who knows Borneonisation more than you? you took a case, you took two plaintiff, you went all the way to the federal court so I appreciate that.
When it comes to the 40pc net revenue this issue are not addressed, Darell Leiking said 1 billion ringgit, when he was in opposition, when he became a federal minister he forgot all about that. This 40pc of net revenue how do you calculate it, it’s not a matter of how you calculate it for instance a lot of money make by the banks by Petronas by the phone companies, by national company like Starbucks all this big companies, oil palm companies, IOI, Genting... they make money from Sabah but their taxation is computed, consolidated at the HQ which is in KL or some other place, so this should be part of the 40 per cent net revenue so there is a lot of computation problem, so I did suggest to Anifah I mean this is all new to you, new to the public, I pointed out to Anifah the government must pay us tax, 40 per cent net revenue in the Malaysia agreement to be complied and let the officers, let the accountants work it out, what is the benchmark?
The benchmark was in 1973 the last payment of the 40 per cent net revenue, how do you have approximate calculation, the GDP growth, so we used the volume of the economy as a xx from there you can work out those day was over 20 over million ringgit so now should be 100 mill ringgit, player. then you calculate, and they have missed out for so many years so now how many years, at least you have a formula to work on, this is something that i will propose, I proposed to Anifah before and now it’s all history la... I will say that 40pc a little bit difficult to calculate.
Q: Do you want to reemphasise the importance of English usage in Malaysia?
A: English is no more a England language, but the real English originated from Germany, the native English people spoke another dialect (*from the Anglo-Saxon) part of it coming from Germany, English will no longer be regarded as a English or a western language or orang putih, bahasa orang putih, English is now a global language. I give you one example when i first went to china more than 50 years ago, there were translation problems. Okay, now you go to China, the airport and the hotels they are very good in English, when I come back to Malaysia, I see translation problem also, they Google translate so we have seen, because we are the English educated generation. I see English have to be emphasised. I give you one example, you know many years ago, I was still a Member of Parliament it was a debate about using English for science and mathematics. I had test case, I adopted one school in Inanam, they have about 30 or 40 students, together with Datuk Eric Majimbun, we got the school, we put it tuition only in English tuition for all the students there. They achieved 100pc passes you know in English, meaning it can be done but in a big scale, we only went to one rural school, they are still 100 per cent passes in English language alone. So English is a global language. I see more and more younger people even mainstream civil service accepting that English will be not just a language but it’s a tool, it’s a knowledge, that it will gain more acceptance.
Back to England, the UK have left the European Union (EU), England going back to the commonwealth so think I will see the use of English in the commonwealth will be enhanced.
Put a lot of emphasise in English language, need to tell people it is not cultural ignition, it is not because you learn English you become less Malaysia it or less another race, you learn English because it is a really important tool for you to access science, technology, trend and anything.
English important tool to access science, technology: Yong
Q: Should Sabah take issues of food security and sufficiency more seriously?
A: The Covid-19 pandemic have taught us one thing among them is food security. suddenly trade have reduce, suddenly difficult to get from supermarket, coincidental during that time i planted some tapioca in my hometown in Lahad Datu. I can show you the video, it feels good, the land is not much, there rise and shine and bit of labour, you produce food, I’m not a farmer. I’m a lawyer because of Covid we did a lot of reading and I discuss with a lot of people that sabah can be food sufficient. when I was the chief minister, we wanted to be self-sufficient in rice, paddy, and before i left we created a unit paddy, under the agricultural department the director was Datuk Juris. the minister was Tan Sri Pandikar the time. in time to grow into a paddy board because we can become self-sufficient in paddy in three years, but you must have the land, you must invest in irrigation and you must have the marketing. so we can, but in terms of most of the other food items, yes we can be self-sufficient but it is not as profitable as oil palm, even as rubber.
so the government must be aware of this wider issue about food security you will have to sacrifice some sales tax on the palm oil and get government to lead the private sector to do food production.
Fisheries no issue, but it’s the farming that is the issue, because by tradition our farmers are poor, our traditional farming method means our farmers become poor, but farming can be commercialised as you can see at many countries.
Q: But it seems like over the years our fishery fleets have been restricted to a few trawlers belonging to private individual or companies. compared to what Vietnam is putting out all over South China Sea, we are not actually developing our potential in that regard. Should Sabah have developed a deep-sea fishing fleet?
A: You have ask the right question to the right person, because one of my key interest is about maritime sector, and i have been pushing for a maritime academy in Sabah to train our Sabahans. I’ve been pushing for maritime academy and before I left as the chief minister there is this maritime strategic framework consisting of all the Malaysian and Sabah laws and Sabah technique to be rationalised, to be strengthen and then set up a maritime academy, it did not happen but i think that can be done because we cannot continue to be traditional fishermen. most of the Vietnamese are very aggressive, they are the deep sea fishing, when they go out to the sea its few months, our fishermn will come back tomorrow so the fishing fleets will take a lot of effort, I do not underestimate the energy and the sources needed to build up a fishing fleet but it must be private sector driven.
Q: Why hasn’t the Cabotage Policy been success in recruiting more Malaysian sailors since it is one of the objectives to crew Malaysian owned ships with trained Malaysian seamen.
A: By nature and character, our people in Sabah and overall, not very much maritime based, our strongest growth sector should be Tourism and Service industry. When it comes to tourism you see there’s a lot of Sabahan. so our people you want to push them to the maritime sector not easy, thats why I said we start with the maritime academy, they get trained, they get internationally recognised diploma and certificates and get good jobs in Dubai. They can start their own business.
Q: What about the Jabatan Laut Academy somewhere in Likas 27:40
A: No, those it think only for departmental training like custom academy, I’m talking about polytechnic or university, I think they have in Sarawak one this Maritime academy, in Lumut and a few in west Malaysia but not in Sabah. This Jabatan laut academy i think they are training their own people, they can become a resource person for our academy they can train our people but I think Jabatan Laut academy is only for their departmental use.
the academy includes training on the management and the law. back to the question about the fishing fleet, we have voiced out, it’s nothing new, it’s been going on for many years. this government also complaining about it, the Vietnamese encroachment, Indonesia burnt the Vietnamese ship that they have confiscated so I will start with a maritime academy. in three years you can produce graduates, actually three months for basic and they can work in other places and they can eventually build up a fishing fleet.
Q: Why do you propose the implementation of the Sabah IC?
A: There are now many Malaysians of non Sabah originate in Sabah. Our solution to that is the Sabah IC. People born with IC not 12 they get harrassed. Even those 12, they dont have IC.
I came back one evening from Kuala Lumpur after a meeting with Tunku Razaleigh Terminal Two in Kota Kinbalu International Airport at that time, I was stopped by the immigration because my IC did not have an H. My Mykad did not have an H.
This is new. This is the first time I talk to the public on this. My IC did not have a H. So the immigration officer at the counter asked me are you born in Sabah and I said yes. He asked if my father was born in Sabah and I said yes. Because of the long queue, I said adik, it was a young lady officer, I said adik can you get somebody to interview me somewhere because there is a queue behind me.
So I was brought into one room, put there for awhile and another officer came , looked into his officer looking for my record, and I said ada masalah kah. then he ran off into another room, then another officer came, a senior officer sori datuk, sori datuk boleh balik sudah. So after that I went to the Jabatan Pendaftaran Negara (JPN) if there was anything wrong with my card, and the people said nothing wrong with my card.
Then I realised, when I got my Mykad, I was a member of Parliament. The first batch of MyKad was issued to members of parliament at parliament. So the JPN in Parliament did not put the H.
Nowadays the new MyKad, have the H. So gave me the idea that hey its not fair to all those non-Sabahan from West Malaysia and from Sarawak to be here for many years. For all intents of purposes are already Sabahans.
So the Sabah IC, if they have been here for seven years or more, the usual criteria , good behaviour, no past record or anything, they will get Sabah IC, so they dont have to distinguish themselves between these MyKad West Malaysia and these MyKad Sabahan. You will get a Sabah IC.
Sabah IC along the way will be able to also eliminate some of those fake identity cards as a result of Project IC. so Sabah IC when we start issuing Sabah IC for Malaysians in Sabah, so my formulae by the way which not all people accept, we will bear a Malaysian MyKad which makes you a Malaysian citizen, but you also bear a Sabah IC which makes you a Sabahan. So if you want to apply for land, you want to be civil servant, you want to apply for Sabah scholarship, anything to do with Sabah, you will need to have the Sabah IC.
Q: Are our ports helpful to the state economy?
A: The issue about our ports now Bintulu and Sepanggar should be emphasised , should be developed further to become bigger and more efficient ports. I am worried when ministers talk about Sabah being nearer to China and nearer to Japan and therefore ships will stop here. No, it doesn’t work like that. The relative distance Port Klang, Singapore, and Sabah to Japan , to China is very small.
The relative distance, meaning the ships going from Japan to Port Klang and Sabah not that much difference. What makes a lot of difference is the volume. The volume of the freight. The ship that leave here must be full of containers, full of cargo then your unit cost comes down.
The distance is not that much to make that difference. So having Sabah being nearer to China compared to KL, and nearer to Japan compared to KL, is not a material difference. After all we still have bigger ports in Phillipines going to Japan and going to China. Why must we stop in Sabah.
So the emphasis will be to let the volume grow through manufacturing, through trade. As the volume grows, unit cost of freight charges would drop.
We have this problem that this state government, talk about in the public, have another major port in Kudat. See it confuses the shipping industry, it confuses the management of Sabah Port. You want to build another port which shipping terms very near. I mean I laugh when the minister said because Kudat is nearer to China than Sepanggar.
I would say , forget about that Kudat Port , Kudat can become a fishery port, it can be a fishery base to service the fishing fleets including fishing fleet from Vietnam who are licensed , China and all local fishing boats in Kudat.
The container port we should focus on Sepanggar. People get worried , industry people get worried when the minister start talking about having another container port in Kudat because Kudat is nearer to China, than Sepanggar to China.
